One More Reason For Me Dislike Obama

[Wiener]

You may feel that it's too close, but would you really want the government to dictate which religions may or may not build places of worship on private property?

Christians wanted to build a church right by the death camp of Ausiwich, the Jews asked them not to out of respect.  There is no church there today and never has been.   This was the right decision by the Christians, why can we not ask the same of Muslims?   No respect there, FU they say and we will build it anyway.  Crazy the respect we hand out and the sh!t we eat for it.

[oldster]

We have had this discussion before. The can be no law but schools continually deny staff and students the freedom of expression of religion.

Completely untrue.  Students and staff may practice their religion in schools in a way that does not force it on others.

[oldster]

Let me be clear-- I do not think THE GOVERNMENT should block the Mosque in any way, assuming it meets prevailing zoning and use customs, regs, etc. But, I do not expect the PREZ to support it either, I would expect THE GREAT UNITER to stress the view that the Mosque is insensitive to the majority of Americans and that many even perceive  it much worse - i.e, victim relatives, etc.

I would hope and expect that NO ONE would supply their labor and other services to build it.

I also think that some of the "more tolerant of us" should look a little deeper into the Mosque- the funding, the fact that very, very few Muslims even live in that area, ( most live across the bridge in Brooklyn, it will be quite a drive through NYC traffic to go to their place of worship") and the history of Muslims buliding Mosques over what they consider as "conquered" territory.

Say, could we build a church next to Mecca? Would that be ok?

Aimeey, first of all, the president swears to support the Constitution, so not supporting the mosque would violate the oath of office.   Secondly, don't we have the expectation of not being as restrictive as the culture in Mecca?

[oldster]

Christians wanted to build a church right by the death camp of Ausiwich, the Jews asked them not to out of respect.  There is no church there today and never has been.   This was the right decision by the Christians, why can we not ask the same of Muslims?   No respect there, FU they say and we will build it anyway.  Crazy the respect we hand out and the sh!t we eat for it.

Christian leaders can ask that it not be built.   Government leaders are prohibited from doing so by the Constitution.

[yoyo]

so, what are you saying, that Muslims can get away with it?

I'd like to see a death toll comparison ---- in Modern Times---- say the last 100 years or so-- of deaths caused by religious causes.
Which one do you think would lead?

Lets add them up,  I bet we can get pretty close.

Srebrenica Genocide, July 1995, 8,000 bosniak men and boys killed, ethnic cleansing of 25,000-30,000 refuges.

 

[yoyo]

We have had this discussion before. The can be no law but schools continually deny staff and students the freedom of expression of religion.

Dont really want to start this up again, but thought you would find this interesting.

A elemetary school just opened in the fall 1/4 mile from my house.  Soon after opening, a start up christian church started holding sunday services and family movie nights during the week.  They continu to do so.  Pretty common in my county(a pretty liberal colunty in the scale of things), one church use to meet in the high school until they gew their congregation enough to build their own building.

[Wiener]

Christian leaders can ask that it not be built.   Government leaders are prohibited from doing so by the Constitution.

True.  Maybe the man, Obama should have just kept his mouth shut.  You would think he would learn after calling the cops stupid, and then having to have a beer summit.  I guess some people never learn, oh well.

[redcap]

Completely untrue.  Students and staff may practice their religion in schools in a way that does not force it on others.

I have worked in two K-12 schools and I totally disagree with your statement.

[redcap]

yoyo, that is good. But some school workers have been diciplined and threatened with firing for wearing a cross pin on a ballcap or having a bible at their workplace (a workplace not accessible to students).

[pbal]

Christian leaders can ask that it not be built.   Government leaders are prohibited from doing so by the Constitution.

What does that mean? Leaders can't express an opinion? Obama certainly did. Can we interpret that as as "forcing" Islam on us?

[Nina]

Completely untrue.  Students and staff may practice their religion in schools in a way that does not force it on others.

I was thinking about that last night Oldster... many public school including the high school my child goes to has a religious clubs....student and teacher ran. I've been to several schools and I can remember some kids and teachers taking off for Russian Orthodox and Jewish Holidays and it not being counted against them. My cousin attends Westmont High school and some of the teen girls wear Burkas. 


I do see where you're coming from Aimee ..and have even though could this be a "victory mosque"? However I don't think Obama is supporting it as much as trying to get people to see that we live in a country where people have the freedom to practice religion and can build a church,mosque,temple and have the choice to build it where were they see fit!

[Nina]

What does that mean? Leaders can't express an opinion? Obama certainly did. Can we interpret that as as "forcing" Islam on us?

Everyone is allowed to their own opinion ...why not we have Christianity forced on us by political leaders all the time!

[yoyo]

What does that mean? Leaders can't express an opinion? Obama certainly did. Can we interpret that as as "forcing" Islam on us?

three quotes taken from the linked story (a story by fox news keep in mind)

"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country,"

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances,"

"This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."

Benign at best, certainly not forcing Islam on anybody.  In my opinion he didn't take a stand at all, he simply pointed to the constitution.  After weeks on not taking a side on this he finally spoke and took the easy way out.  Now McCain, Palin, and Newt, being strict constitutionalists rendering an opinion differing from the 1st amendment, that is expressing an opinion.

[yoyo]

Other Ground Zero neighbors:

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/ground-zero-mosque-name-belies-distance-from-world-trade-center-site-other-local-realities/19590651

My favorite: 3 block away
    *  The Ground Zero Strip Club
    * Actual name: New York Dolls
    * The location: 59 Murray St.
    * The skinny: About a block away from the planned mosque is pretty much the exact opposite of a house of worship, an establishment that led one Yelp user to rave (somewhat NSFW image at the link): "New York Dolls has given me a new appreciation for stripping." In case you're wondering, it's wheelchair accessible, too.

[pbal]

Everyone is allowed to their own opinion ...why not we have Christianity forced on us by political leaders all the time!

That doesn't answer the question. Is the president, by expressing an opinion, attempting to "force" Islam on us? The absurdity of your statement notwithstanding, ("all the time?" "forced on us?"), is this the new morality? We are now free to excuse our own behavior, no matter how reprehensible, because "they" do it "all the time?"

Of course it's just an opinion, YoYo, but Oldster seems to imply that, by expressing an opinion in the form of asking that a place of worship be built, or not be built, an elected official would be acting contrary to the Constitution. I just want some clarification on that.